Low Carb Conundrum For Person With Health Issues

[BarefootWriter]

I joined this website yesterday and have really enjoyed reading many of the posts. I love the fact that there is a Vegetarian Forum here. Some of the messages have touched on some of my concerns, but I thought I would put my story out there in case someone had some specific advice for me.

I'm 57 and I have a heart condition, diabetes type II and I'm overweight. The trifecta of bad health conditions. From my late 20s to early 40s I was a healthy, active person who was primarily a lacto-ovo-vegetarian. By my mid-40s I had become less active and put on weight. At 48 I tried a modified Atkins and lost a lot of weight (265 to 195) in less than a year. I started having a lot of uric acid kidney stones, went off the program and gained back all the weight. Five years ago I was diagnosed with diabetes, a year later with heart disease (low ejection fraction). My diabetic doctor suggested low-carb (Bernstein), my Cleveland Clinic cardiologist insisted on low-fat vegan (McDougall, Ornish, Barnard, Esselstyn). I am one of the few who actually has found a way to stay fat on a vegan way of eating.

When I do low-carb I do feel better, my sugars are normal and I lose weight, but I tend to get kidney stones, and the thought is always in the back of my mind that I'm doing damage to my heart and kidneys. I was just wondering if anyone else has had that dilemma.

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice. John

[gitfiddle]

John, I don't know if this will help, but here is a link to an earlier thread on the topic.

I think it has to do with individual metabolisms, because I've been eating this way for several years and have never had a kidney stone. I'm also a type II and this is the best way to keep tight control. Consider the fact that you may be able to add something to your diet in the form of a supplement, perhaps, that will help the uric acid situation.

Good luck!

[Frank Hagan]

I'm certainly not an expert, but I did a bit of research on low carb and kidney stones a while back. A helpful person told me a low carb diet led to kidney stones, but as with everything diet related, it is really a lot more nuanced than that.

I did learn that the diets to help avoid future stones are different for the types of stones. They all emphasize drinking a lot of water. The NIH site on diets for kidney stones recommends that you eat less than 6 ounces of meat per day and avoid organ meats, fish, and shellfish if you produce uric acid stones (limiting the amount of "purines", whatever they are). The purines break down into uric acid in the urine.

Protein Power has a short section on a vegetarian approach on page 98 and 99 in the chapter "Putting it all Together". You'll have to check, but if you can eat cheese, yogurt, etc. you can still get enough protein and stay low carb. Your doctor that recommended low carb can probably find resources for you to limit the type of foods that have purines in them.

[BarefootWriter]

Originally Posted by gitfiddle

John, I don't know if this will help, but here is a link to an earlier thread on the topic.

I think it has to do with individual metabolisms, because I've been eating this way for several years and have never had a kidney stone. I'm also a type II and this is the best way to keep tight control. Consider the fact that you may be able to add something to your diet in the form of a supplement, perhaps, that will help the uric acid situation.

Good luck!

Carol, thank you for the referral to the earlier thread! That really helps. I sent Randy a private email requesting his "recipe" for disolving large kidney stones. I'm anxious to hear back. You were so kind to take the time to write, thanks again! John

[BarefootWriter]

Originally Posted by Frank Hagan

I'm certainly not an expert, but I did a bit of research on low carb and kidney stones a while back. A helpful person told me a low carb diet led to kidney stones, but as with everything diet related, it is really a lot more nuanced than that.

I did learn that the diets to help avoid future stones are different for the types of stones. They all emphasize drinking a lot of water. The NIH site on diets for kidney stones recommends that you eat less than 6 ounces of meat per day and avoid organ meats, fish, and shellfish if you produce uric acid stones (limiting the amount of "purines", whatever they are). The purines break down into uric acid in the urine.

Protein Power has a short section on a vegetarian approach on page 98 and 99 in the chapter "Putting it all Together". You'll have to check, but if you can eat cheese, yogurt, etc. you can still get enough protein and stay low carb. Your doctor that recommended low carb can probably find resources for you to limit the type of foods that have purines in them.

Frank, that's some Blog you have there! It will take some time to read through, but it's very interesting. Thanks, too, for the NIH webpage dealing with kidney stones. I'll give that a go, as well. John

[maxlharris]

Originally Posted by BarefootWriter

I am one of the few who actually has found a way to stay fat on a vegan way of eating.

That it's only a few who stay fat on a vegan way of eating is probably a myth. It's not just about the source, it's also about what you are actually eating.

[razgarcia]

I've expeienced kidney stones only twice in my life (I'm 59)--once in 1976 before low carbing and again in 2004 after low carbing. Both times I felt as though I were passing a pineapple! The last time surgery was required to remove it as the thing just wouldn't pass (I'll spare you the sordid details). I NEVER want to go throught that again!

So, I drink lots of water and started taking 3 99mg capsules of potassiom citrate daily. I learned a while back that potassium citrate helps prevent the formation of calcium-based kidney stones (just google "potassium citrate kidney stones" and you'll get lots of hits on this, including http://www.webmd.com/kidney-stones/p...-kidney-stones).

Hope this helps.

[S Bear]

Originally Posted by BarefootWriter

When I do low-carb I do feel better, my sugars are normal and I lose weight, but I tend to get kidney stones, and the thought is always in the back of my mind that I'm doing damage to my heart and kidneys.

I don't know much about kidney stones. (Recent research on gallstones in Britain showed that weight loss on low-fat diets caused gallstones, while weight loss on a high-fat diet didn't--but kidney stones are another matter.)

But I notice that your post said you're worried about doing damage to your heart and kidneys. Do you have some reason to believe you're causing heart problems? Lower weight and better-controlled blodd sugar would seem to me to suggest the opposite.

[For what it's worth, I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for more than 40 years, and I can easily gain weight on a vegan diet. Weight for me is all about starch and sugar intake, and most vegan diets are packed with them.]

[maxlharris]

What type of kidney stones?
Calcium phosplates/oxylates or uric acid?
The solution depends on the type of stones.

Either way, drink a lot of water to dilute the chemicals that form the stones. If it's oxylates, you can avoid foods that have a lot of oxylates (I believe this to include beer and coffee, but have not done a thorough search). Uric acid ones are based on a certain amino acid, which can also be avoided somewhat.

If I had stones, I would approach it like I approach any project:
Do some research on the problem (like see if anyone ever analyzed your stone content for type, if not, hold and, hope you don't get em this go, and if you do, make sure you get the content sorted)
Figure out causes, read some pub-med, and do some google for solutions.
Odds are, if you have a problem, someone else has the same problem, and maybe even got it solved.